[RP TownTalk] Taxes

Wed May 23 13:08:48 UTC 2007

Great point, Nancy M. Everybody loves to hate the property tax, but there's
a good chance that it's a lot lower than your state and local income taxes,
and a lot lower than the sales taxes you pay every year. Both of those types
of taxes go to state and local government to provide services and
facilities. 

  _____  

From: towntalk-bounces at riverdale-park.org
[mailto:towntalk-bounces at riverdale-park.org] On Behalf Of Nancy Mooney
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 8:50 AM
To: towntalk at riverdale-park.org
Subject: Re: [RP TownTalk] Taxes

Hi All -

I've been out of town and admit that I've not been able to read all the
messages on this topic, but want to say something anyway.... : )

In Oklahoma City, where my husband comes from, they have schools of
excellent reputation and good roads.  The also pay 8.5% sales tax on
everything INCLUDING FOOD!  It would be interesting to know what other
cities/towns pay as a total tax, not just the property tax.  I've heard a
lot of 'talk' here about needing more police, etc., and we know that's gotta
cost.  I have seen improvements in our town already, from nicer looking
common areas to more 'sightings' of our honorable servants in blue.   

I'm casting no vote at this point for or against the tax increase, but after
being shocked at what my family in OK pays in taxes on their groceries, I'm
willing to hear what the mayor has to say.  I want to live in a nice town
that is on the move up!  

Hey, by the way, I've asked this before; what is going on with the person we
hired to counsel us on improving our town commerce/town center area?  I
can't remember her full name.  The initial meeting was quite encouraging but
I've heard nothing since.

Thanks!  Nancy Mooney

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: no vote will be taken at the budget hearing (CHRISTINA DAVIS)
2. Re: no vote will be taken at the budget hearing
(Maureen Farrington)
3. re proposed property tax increase -- an apology (and some
considerable relief!) (Dwight Holmes)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 08:37:29 -0400
From: "CHRISTINA DAVIS" 
Subject: Re: [RP TownTalk] no vote will be taken at the budget hearing
To: "'Dwight Holmes'" , "'TownTalk'"

Message-ID: <006b01c79c6d$f6813660$020aa8c0 at naw.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

The budget historically has been delivered the week before the election (in
election years), and preparation with town staff began 1-2 months earlier.
Perhaps this has changed more recently, but it might be a good system to go
back to. It is unusual in the town's history for a proposed budget hike of
this size to have not been discussed during a campaign, either pro or con.

Also, I have been hearing much about road improvements; streets that were
repaired 5-10 years ago are being redone again now. This is not unusual if a
utility company destroys them and pays for the complete over-hall (usually
after much legal wrangling). But, if these newly done streets did not
survive their proposed 20-30 year life span, then perhaps the road repair
company should be taken to task and repair them at reduced or no cost.

A now-deceased mayor from the 1960s touted himself as the "road-paving
king," and did all of the town streets at once. Then, in the 1980s and early
1990s, they all failed at the nearly same time (as their life expectancies
all expired at the same time), a problem which my generation of
councilmembers inherited. A more moderate approach seemed to be warranted,
as it would not seem prudent to pass this problem along to your children
after the town had learned such a valuable lesson then.

Chris 

-----Original Message-----
From: towntalk-bounces at riverdale-park.org
[mailto:towntalk-bounces at riverdale-park.org] On Behalf Of Dwight Holmes
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 3:50 PM
To: TownTalk
Subject: Re: [RP TownTalk] no vote will be taken at the budget hearing

Roland--Thank you for the information here you've given us that I was not
previously aware of, and which is good to know. The value of this thread
continues to accumulate. However, I'm puzzled a bit by your citing of my
earlier email. What I wrote was "Like some have already said, I think it's
too bad the discussion couldn't have started somewhat sooner -- it does feel
a bit rushed, for something as momentous as this is. But it is good to know
that there are at least a few meetings to go before things are finalized."
You took a piece of that out of context. I think it misconstrued the
meaning of what I wrote.

And whether we are eventually talking about tax hike of 27% or 18% or even
10%, I think it's fair to say that it is momentous. I would argue at the
very least that it *should* be seen as such. I'm not advocating for or
against any particular proposal at this point. As a new homeowner in the
town, I want and need much more information. That's why I've appreciated and
expressed as much for the current thread(s) we've got going here. Without
this email list I would know nothing of any of these issues. It's really
too bad more of our residents don't join in. But mainly, I'm just saying
that a tax increase of any amount in that range (10 - 27%) is certainly not
inconsequential, is certainly significant, and may be seen by many on tight
budgets as mom entous. 

On 5/21/07, Roland Walker wrote:

[Dwight Holmes writes]
> it does feel a bit rushed, for something as momentous as this is.

Outside the world of this email list, the budget process is neither so
rushed, nor the taxation decision so momentous. 

No vote will be taken tonight -- the meeting is only a hearing, one
that is required under the laws that govern the process.

The mayor's submitted budget represents, in large part, "wishlists" 
put forward by town staff, gathered up together, and proposed to the
council.

Tonight's hearing publicizes a maximum number, which our taxes cannot
exceed. However, it is expected that the final taxation instructions 
we send to the county will be lower. The law gives us the flexibility
to move down -- but not up -- from the publicized number. So we call
it first on the high end.

Right now, what is happening is that your councilmembers are poring 
over the budget, finding items to remove or add, generally working to
bring the budget down by whittling away at staff wishlists. One
councilmember has also found a revenue item which was missing.
Citizens have also read the budget and forwarded good money-saving 
suggestions, and are encouraged to do so.

The incoming council are the ones that will actually pass the budget.
They are on point right now to see that the budget fits their policy
priorities as described to voters. 

This is generally a consultative process, not an adversarial one. Mr
Oppenheim's exhortations on the subject may be charitably explained by
noting that having served only half a term, he is not very familiar 
with the process.

The final tax rate will be lower than the advertised rate. It will
probably represent a modest rise in rates.

Vernon Archer ran for mayor in '05 on a platform or building up our 
town, and was unopposed in '07. Perhaps someone will run in '09 on a
platform of cutting police and public works. In the meantime,
measured, steady buildup will continue.

This was the choice of the voters. 

R
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For more information about Riverdale Park, visit
http://www.ci.riverdale-park.md.us

-- 
~~
Map of Riverdale Park MD Trolley Hiker-Biker Trail and Cafritz Property
http://tinyurl.com/2wsfql
~~
Tracking the Washington Nationals' 2007 season (will they catch the '62
Mets?):
http://tinyurl.com/2m6f43 

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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 11:24:10 -0400
From: "Maureen Farrington" 
Subject: Re: [RP TownTalk] no vote will be taken at the budget hearing
To: TownTalk 
Message-ID:
<848cd36e0705220824r4d718b23o26c7b86410c9cec at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

If repairing the roads all at once saves us money, I don't see how
this is a bad thing for the future of the town.

On 5/22/07, CHRISTINA DAVIS wrote:
>
>
>
>
> The budget historically has been delivered the week before the election
(in
> election years), and preparation with town staff began 1-2 months earlier.
> Perhaps this has changed more recently, but it might be a good system to
go
> back to. It is unusual in the town's history for a proposed budget hike of
> this size to have not been discussed during a campaign, either pro or con.
>
>
>
> Also, I have been hearing much about road improvements; streets that were
> repaired 5-10 years ago are being redone again now. This is not unusual if
a
> utility company destroys them and pays for the complete over-hall (usually
> after much legal wrangling). But, if these newly done streets did not
> survive their proposed 20-30 year life span, then perhaps the road repair
> company should be taken to task and repair them at reduced or no cost.
>
>
>
> A now-deceased mayor from the 1960s touted himself as the "road-paving
> king," and did all of the town streets at once. Then, in the 1980s and
early
> 1990s, they all failed at the nearly same time (as their life expectancies
> all expired at the same time), a problem which my generation of
> councilmembers inherited. A more moderate approach seemed to be warranted,
> as it would not seem prudent to pass this problem along to your children
> after the town had learned such a valuable lesson then.
>
>
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: towntalk-bounces at riverdale-park.org
> [mailto:towntalk-bounces at riverdale-park.org] On Behalf Of
> Dwight Holmes
> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 3:50 PM
> To: TownTalk
> Subject: Re: [RP TownTalk] no vote will be taken at the budget hearing
>
>
>
> Roland--Thank you for the information here you've given us that I was not
> previously aware of, and which is good to know. The value of this thread
> continues to accumulate. However, I'm puzzled a bit by your citing of my
> earlier email. What I wrote was "Like some have already said, I think it's
> too bad the discussion couldn't have started somewhat sooner -- it does
feel
> a bit rushed, for something as momentous as this is. But it is good to
know
> that there are at least a few meetings to go before things are finalized."
> You took a piece of that out of context. I think it misconstrued the
> meaning of what I wrote.
>
> And whether we are eventually talking about tax hike of 27% or 18% or even
> 10%, I think it's fair to say that it is momentous. I would argue at the
> very least that it *should* be seen as such. I'm not advocating for or
> against any particular proposal at this point. As a new homeowner in the
> town, I want and need much more information. That's why I've appreciated
and
> expressed as much for the current thread(s) we've got going here. Without
> this email list I would know nothing of any of these issues. It's really
> too bad more of our residents don't join in. But mainly, I'm just saying
> that a tax increase of any amount in that range (10 - 27%) is certainly
not
> inconsequential, is certainly significant, and may be seen by many on
tight
> budgets as mom entous.
>
>
>
>
> On 5/21/07, Roland Walker wrote:
>
> [Dwight Holmes writes]
> > it does feel a bit rushed, for something as momentous as this is.
>
> Outside the world of this email list, the budget process is neither so
> rushed, nor the taxation decision so momentous.
>
> No vote will be taken tonight -- the meeting is only a hearing, one
> that is required under the laws that govern the process.
>
> The mayor's submitted budget represents, in large part, "wishlists"
> put forward by town staff, gathered up together, and proposed to the
> council.
>
> Tonight's hearing publicizes a maximum number, which our taxes cannot
> exceed. However, it is expected that the final taxation instructions
> we send to the county will be lower. The law gives us the flexibility
> to move down -- but not up -- from the publicized number. So we call
> it first on the high end.
>
> Right now, what is happening is that your councilmembers are poring
> over the budget, finding items to remove or add, generally working to
> bring the budget down by whittling away at staff wishlists. One
> councilmember has also found a revenue item which was missing.
> Citizens have also read the budget and forwarded good money-saving
> suggestions, and are encouraged to do so.
>
> The incoming council are the ones that will actually pass the budget.
> They are on point right now to see that the budget fits their policy
> priorities as described to voters.
>
> This is generally a consultative process, not an adversarial one. Mr
> Oppenheim's exhortations on the subject may be charitably explained by
> noting that having served only half a term, he is not very familiar
> with the process.
>
> The final tax rate will be lower than the advertised rate. It will
> probably represent a modest rise in rates.
>
> Vernon Archer ran for mayor in '05 on a platform or building up our
> town, and was unopposed in '07. Perhaps someone will run in '09 on a
> platform of cutting police and public works. In the meantime,
> measured, steady buildup will continue.
>
> This was the choice of the voters.
>
> R
> _______________________________________________
> TownTalk mailing list
> To post to the list, send mail to TownTalk at riverdale-park.org
> TownTalk-request at riverdale-park.org is for automated
> subscription processing only
> http://riverdale-park.org/mailman/listinfo/towntalk
>
> For more information about Riverdale Park, visit
> http://www.ci.riverdale-park.md.us
>
>
>
>
> --
> ~~
> Map of Riverdale Park MD Trolley Hiker-Biker Trail and Cafritz Property
> http://tinyurl.com/2wsfql
> ~~
> Tracking the Washington Nationals' 2007 season (will they catch the '62
> Mets?):
> http://tinyurl.com/2m6f43
> _______________________________________________
> TownTalk mailing list
> To post to the list, send mail to TownTalk at riverdale-park.org
> TownTalk-request at riverdale-park.org is for automated
> subscription processing only
> http://riverdale-park.org/mailman/listinfo/towntalk
>
> For more information about Riverdale Park, visit
> http://www.ci.riverdale-park.md.us
>

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 14:02:20 -0400
From: "Dwight Holmes" 
Subject: [RP TownTalk] re proposed property tax increase -- an apology
(and some considerable relief!)
To: TownTalk 
Message-ID:
<8123da3c0705221102i6fbfbdccu8511e0900028ba9f at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

i apologize for inadvertently giving out wrong information at last
night's town meeting. having done a hasty,
trying-to-get-to-the-meeting-on-time calculation, i misinterpreted our
State of Maryland Assessment Notice, and thus came up with a number
exactly triple of what it should have been: 19% rather than 57%. you
can imagine that we are as relieved as anyone to know that it's not
57%!

one reason i was so hurried in doing that calculation was it took me a
long time to decipher the semiannual "Consolidated Tax Bill for Tax
Year Jul 1, 2006 to Jun 30, 2007" statement.
the reason for that being that some of the numbers on that statement
are annual while others are semiannual -- and they kind of leave it up
to the reader to figure that out. so it took awhile to make sense of
it.

when i did i was able to determine that our Town of Riverdale Park
taxes make up almost exactly 33% of our total property tax bill. (PG
County's portion is 41%, and the remaining 26% is made up of the other
various taxing jurisdictions, the largest portion of which is Park &
Planning)

so the proposed increase that we are now discussing will affect
roughly one-third of our bill. i have some questions about the
entire, overall process, but i will save those until i have gathered
more and better information.

-- 
~~
Map of Riverdale Park MD Trolley Hiker-Biker Trail and Cafritz Property
http://tinyurl.com/2wsfql
~~
Tracking the Washington Nationals' 2007 season (will they catch the '62
Mets?):
http://tinyurl.com/2m6f43

------------------------------

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TownTalk mailing list
TownTalk at riverdale-park.org
http://riverdale-park.org/mailman/listinfo/towntalk

For more information about Riverdale Park, visit
http://www.ci.riverdale-park.md.us

End of TownTalk Digest, Vol 10, Issue 50
****************************************

  _____  

Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! 
Play
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48223/*http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamek
ey=monopolyherenow> Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy)
at Yahoo! Games.
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