[RP TownTalk] Md senator helps pass Telecom immunity

Sat Feb 16 01:53:29 UTC 2008

Thank you gentlemen, this is precisely the conversation I had been hoping for when this thread opened.

Jim Coleman

4911 Somerset Road 

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Oppenheim <Rob.Oppenheim at comcast.net>
To: TownTalk <towntalk at riverdale-park.org>
Sent: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 8:39 pm
Subject: Re: [RP TownTalk] Md senator helps pass Telecom immunity

Roland wrote:
> The sole subject of civil immunity is 13-week period in the
> immediate aftermath of 9/11.
Actually, the period covered by the immunity is 5+ years, beginning
n September 11, 2001, and ending on January 17, 2007.
Roland suggests reading section 202 of the bill. OK, here is a
ortion of it:
Sec 202. LIMITATIONS ON CIVIL ACTIONS FOR ELECTRONIC
OMMUNICATION SERVICE PROVIDERS
... a covered civil action shall not lie or be maintained in a
ederal or State court, and shall be promptly dismissed, if the
ttorney General certifies to the court that--" [the action was]
... authorized by the President during the period beginning on
eptember 11, 2001, and ending on January 17, 2007; ..."
The full text is here:
ttp://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=s110-2248
Roland writes:
> if Barack Obama is elected President, his Attorney General
> will be the one to determine whether the immunity applies
Actually the bill, if passed, would take effect immediately, so it
s Bush's attorney general (Michael Mukasey) that would make the
eterminations. I think it is safe to say that the relevant current
aw suits would immediately be dismissed.
The fact is the legality of the telecom actions have NOT been
stablished. The courts should be allowed to determine if the
elecom actions were lawful or not. If they were lawful, then there
s no need for immunity. If they were not lawful, then they should
e held accountable.
The scope of the spying was huge. It covered 5 years, and it
ppears to have covered every single Internet activity.
Whistleblower Mark Klein said he was ordered to patch the backbone
f the Interent into the government's secret spy room. Every email,
very phone call, all web browsing - both domestic and international
ere sent in. "It involves millions of communications, a lot of it
omestic communications that they‘re copying wholesale, sweeping up
nto that secret room. ... my thought was George Orwell‘s 1984, and
ere I am being forced to connect the big brother machine. ...
 felt I was in a funny position, but I needed my job so I didn‘t want
o make a fuss. After I retired, I thought about it some more."
You can read his whole statement here:
ttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21690264/ ]
By the way, I can relate to his situation. In the late 1980's, I was
he project director to develop an international communication
etwork for the American Red Cross. The network was also to be
onnected to a secure communication network used by the US Armed
orces. I was asked to connect the two systems without going thru all
he proper channels to get it approved. This was not spying or
nything like that, they were just worried about the red-tape and
he delay it would cause the project. Still, I refused to do it. A
ew higher ups dropped by to "urge" me to do it. I told them that I
ould not. As they grew more insistent, I told them I would resign
f need be, and that if I ever found out that it had been done
ithout going thru proper channels, that I would report it to the
uthorities. That ended the conversation. Eventually, the project
ot the proper permissions and I connected the networks. My
tance probably cost me a promotion and a raise, but it was the
ight thing to do.
-Rob Oppenheim, Cleveland Ave.
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