[RP TownTalk] multiple families/apartments

Thu Apr 22 14:25:40 UTC 2010

Bruce - Could you explain how you think motherhood particularly relates to
these problems and failings as you see them? I don't understand what you are
getting at.

  _____  

From: towntalk-bounces at riverdale-park.org
[mailto:towntalk-bounces at riverdale-park.org] On Behalf Of
bruce.wernek at mindspring.com
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 10:07 AM
To: McDougall,Sherene (Law); Jeffrey Yorke
Cc: OurDollMom at aol.com; towntalk at riverdale-park.org; nbmooney1 at yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [RP TownTalk] multiple families/apartments

There are numerous reasons for limits to the number of people in a home not
the least of which is safety.

When a home is designed, the architect makes assumptions about how many
people will be living there.  This becomes significant when you start to
count the number of exits.  Theres a litany of regulations in this area,
which I do not want to get into, but it's all related to safety.  Imagine a
fire at one of the homes with four families.  Assuming two children per
family, that would mean 16 people living in a house designed for ~6 people
(three bedrooms 1.5 baths).  All of them would be scrambling for the two
exits.  I would not want to be one of them.

The other issue is living conditions.  Imagine 16 people living in a three
bedroom house with 1.5 bathrooms, a living room, and a dining room.  That
would mean there would be three people sleeping in each room with four in
one of them.  Would any of you want to live like that?
Imagine 16 people bathing in one bathroom or sharing one kitchen.  Would any
of you want to be one of those people?  On 43rd there was a grandmother with
three children living in a garage awhile back using electric space heaters
in the winter and yes this was in Riverdale.  Does this sound like the kind
of living conditions we want in this town or anywhere else for that matter.
What about basic human dignity.  I hear a lot of talk about it.  For your
information, this is what it's all about.

I keep reading all of this motherhood, but what about the reality of it all.
Does anyone out there think about these things?

Bruce

-----Original Message----- 
From: "McDougall, Sherene (Law)" 
Sent: Apr 22, 2010 8:42 AM 
To: Jeffrey Yorke , bruce.wernek at mindspring.com 
Cc: OurDollMom at aol.com, wheadle at yahoo.com, towntalk at riverdale-park.org,
nbmooney1 at yahoo.com 
Subject: RE: [RP TownTalk] multiple families/apartments 

Quite agree.  I am from a West Indian culture and know how it is with big
families in a small space.  Could not have said it better about the wasted
spaces in huge homes, though I am guilty of that to a point but only because
I extended from a small home to a moderate one to make more room for my
family, extended family and friends when they come to visit.  

From: Jeffrey Yorke [mailto:yorkedial at gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 12:21 AM
To: bruce.wernek at mindspring.com
Cc: McDougall, Sherene (Law); OurDollMom at aol.com; wheadle at yahoo.com;
towntalk at riverdale-park.org; nbmooney1 at yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [RP TownTalk] multiple families/apartments

Bruce's theory is only one scenario in the Big City of immigration in
America. And in landlording. Most landlords are not out to beat the tax
system illegally. At least not the ones in my sphere. And we are also not
out to take advantage of tenants, citizens or undocumented immigrants. 

Long before America's recent invasions/wars broke the bank, families and
friends have been doubling up in houses. And in apartments. Part of it has
been economic beyond the economy, part of it is cultural. My own Ukrainian
relatives packed into a small house made for a fifth of the number of those
who lived there. That was during Calvin Coolidge's administration. And it's
happened to every immigrant population since, not to mentioned US born
Americans. It's just more obvious to communities when the gang is
"outsiders." And we immediately think they don't belong and that they are
here illegally. A whole lot of assuming is going on here. 

One more thing: Americans are generally a people overhoused. Too darn much
space for each person in a single house. Bathrooms that go on for acres,
kitchens large enough for Emeril Lagasse to do his show. Should we be
astounded when someone from a different culture takes new approach to
otherwise wasted space? 

As far as fear of property values going down because "too many" people live
at one address, consider if these same people were forced to live outside
the dwelling, on the street. Property values would be really down then. And
that would be the least of our problems. 

On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 8:00 AM, <bruce.wernek at mindspring.com> wrote:

Oh please, enough with the motherhood, this has been going on for years.
There are two houses around a block from my house that have/had multiple
families living in them long before the economic downturn.  One of them,
next to Ernie's Lock, was shut down about 18 months ago for this reason.
The other still has around four families living in it.

It's unfortunate, but many of these places are halfway houses for illegal
immigrants/families.  This is the way it works.  A citizen or a legal
immigrant buys a house.  To pay for the house he/she rents rooms to illegal
immigrants/families.  Since the illegal immigrants/family have no
identification, credit history, social security number(s), etc, it's
difficult if not impossible for them to rent an apartment or find a regular
job.  This means that they must work as day laborers and therefore pay their
rent in cash.  It's perfect for the landlord because; there is no record of
rent payments; there is no enforcement of rental laws because as far as the
county is concerned the house is not a rental property; the landlord doesn't
have to spend any money on maintainenance, insurance, etc. because again the
house is "not a rental property"; enforcement of rental laws is lax if not
non-existent; and the landlord doesn't claim the rent as income so he/she
doesn't pay any taxes on it while still geting all of the related benefits
that we taxpayers pay for.  Not only that, if the illegal immigrant/family
is having difficulty paying their rent, the landlord can threaten to turn
them over to the INS or just throw them out with absolutely no consequences.
The tenants have no recourse since they are not legal residents.

What a country! 

Bruce

-----Original Message----- 
From: "McDougall, Sherene (Law)" 
Sent: Apr 20, 2010 6:01 PM 
To: OurDollMom at aol.com, wheadle at yahoo.com, bruce.wernek at mindspring.com,
nbmooney1 at yahoo.com, towntalk at riverdale-park.org 
Subject: RE: [RP TownTalk] multiple families/apartments 

Please remember that in these times when a lot of people are losing their
homes, families are bundling up and living with relatives so as not to end
up on the streets.  I do agree that there are instances where unrelated
people dwell in a home, but we are all trying to survive. 

Sherene

From: towntalk-bounces at riverdale-park.org
[mailto:towntalk-bounces at riverdale-park.org] On Behalf Of OurDollMom at aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 5:57 PM
To: wheadle at yahoo.com; bruce.wernek at mindspring.com; nbmooney1 at yahoo.com;
towntalk at riverdale-park.org
Subject: Re: [RP TownTalk] multiple families/apartments

Some time ago I went to a meeting about

this topic.  The answer was the courts are

so overloaded with serious cases that the

judges will not hear or prosecute people

who have multiple family members/friends

living with them.  Also was mentioned that

these people are trying to survive, make a

living, send money back home, etc. They

said the rules cannot be enforced.

In a message dated 4/20/2010 12:30:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
wheadle at yahoo.com writes:

On the same subject, what is the maximum number of people allowed in, for
instance, a 1 bedroom apartment?  Just curious...

  _____  

From: "bruce.wernek at mindspring.com" <bruce.wernek at mindspring.com>
To: Nancy Mooney <nbmooney1 at yahoo.com>; towntalk at riverdale-park.org
Sent: Tue, April 20, 2010 10:42:23 AM
Subject: Re: [RP TownTalk] multiple families/single family homes

I've noticed this too Nancy.  This is going on all over town.

Based on my understanding, the maximum number of unrelated individuals
allowable by law is five per household.  I had to abide by this law when I
had rental property in Hyattsvile.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Nancy Mooney 
Sent: Apr 20, 2010 10:33 AM 
To: towntalk at riverdale-park.org 
Subject: [RP TownTalk] multiple families/single family homes 

I have begun to wonder what the impact is on our town of these many single
family homes that are crammed with families.

I know of one instance where a family of 4 shares a bedroom in the back of a
house.  Another large family has the front of the house, and at least one
other person is living in the basement.

I think there are at least three families - by the number of 'moms' and kids
I see.  (I'm assuming they are moms) in the house next to me - which has 4
bedrooms at the most.

I know this group can be very caustic - please no insults about me being
racist, or bigoted, or, whatever.  These people I'm speaking of are my
friends.  But it just seems unhealthy and in the long run - a burden on the
town services.

What I would like to know is what are the costs to the town, and what can we
do to reduce this impact?

Nancy

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-- 
Jeffrey Yorke
Yorke Property Management, Inc.
Yorke Partners
Jeffrey at YorkeRents.com
301-502-1243

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