[RP TownTalk] TownTalk Digest, Vol 33, Issue 23, COC's comments
Marita Novicky
maritanovicky at gmail.com
Thu Apr 23 14:07:40 UTC 2009
"Where were all these opinions two-three months ago when this idea was
presented to the Council? Reported in the Council meeting minutes?
Refined, discussed at follow-on public Council meetings?
Although, participation in the educational process is not required to
have an opinion, I don't hear anyone offering time, money.
I have often noted that those that don't have to do, "know" how those
that are doing, should."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dear COC: as you know, I seldom post to Town Talk, but for my recent post
when I asked for your "tired, warn out, blue jeans" for a project I am doing
in ArtsFest2's Children's Pavilion, which *BTW, I have not had one response.
* Woe is me; no one has old blue jeans to donate to a children's art
project, but not to worry, we will have plenty of other projects for the
children to do.
I am an avid follower of the long and lively conversations that are posted
on Town Talk and I believe them to be beneficial albeit protracted at
times. I could not help but follow this discussion about the proposed mural
on one of our public places as I am one of the founders of the Rivderdale
Park Arts Council (RPAC) who will sponsor its second ArtsFest on May 3, 2009
in Town Center.
I am as guilty as the rest for not attending Council and hearing about the
proposed mural. My busy life and schedule often leaves me too busy or too
tired to attend evening meetings, so I must say that I am forever in debt
and grateful to our public servants--the Mayor, Council members, Town
employees, and stalwart citizens who do attend and labor often long into the
night on issues impacting the Town. While this discussion about the mural
was public, it is a shame that no one was there to speak for RPAC for
certainly they would have added comments and asked questions so that this
project could proceed with an abundance of citizen input and without
stirring real questions and concerns afterwards.
I do receive Town Announce and confess that I probably did not open the
agenda posted for the Council meetings where this mural was discussed. Had
I done so, I would have been sure to be at the meeting, or alert other RPAC
members so that we could have attended and given public input.
Be assured that I will be certain to open agenda's in the future to make
sure that I do not miss issues of consequence. Working with Native
Americans in several projects at the University, I understand the pride they
have for their heritage and I believe it would be a real shame to not
appropriately portray the tribe(s) that emanated from our area here in
Riverdale Park.
I appreciate Town Talk and every one's opinion. I'm not sure how to assure
that this type of controversy does not happen in the future, but I will
speak with my Council member to see what can be done. I await resolution on
this issue and do hope the mural will correctly depict are proud Native
American heritage.
Marita
On 4/23/09, towntalk-request at riverdale-park.org <
towntalk-request at riverdale-park.org> wrote:
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Mural Idealist (Sarah Wayland)
> 2. Woodland Indians (OurDollMom at aol.com)
> 3. Re: Mural Idealist (OurDollMom at aol.com)
> 4. Re: Mural Idealist (Christopher Martin)
> 5. Recommendations Needed: Roofer and Pest Control (Jenni Pompi)
> 6. Re: Mural Idealist (Cranky old Coot)
> 7. Re: Mural Idealist (Lou King)
> 8. Re: Mural Idealist (Jonah Blaustein)
> 9. Re: Mural Idealist (Jim Coleman)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 08:00:51 -0400
> From: Sarah Wayland <sarah.wayland at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [RP TownTalk] Mural Idealist
> To: towntalk at riverdale-park.org
> Message-ID:
> <d6da06a80904220500p22cec3b9g253b90a4d5dd4671 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Wonderful idea to include imagery from local native American tribes.
>
> The local tribe I am most familiar with is the Piscataway. Apparently
> they were closely allied with the Nacotchtank tribe who lived in what
> is now Washington DC (and are a member of the Algonquin tribe).
>
> I could find only one website that mentioned the Woodland Indians, and
> must confess that I didn't know much about them until Melissa posted.
>
> At any rate, most of the resources I could find on the web said that
> the Piscataway did not leave much of a record of their art - it looks
> to be mostly jewelry and costumes. Does anyone know where to find
> imagery that would be appropriate?
>
> ----
>
> I would like to see some images that pertain to more recent history as
> well. Perhaps a picture of the train station and/or a train and
> definitely an image of the Riversdale Mansion. Perhaps images from the
> Town Seal would be appropriate?
>
> -Sarah
>
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 9:30 PM, Melissa Avery <m.avery at rocketmail.com>
> wrote:
> > It is very interesting that you have chosen Native American symbols as a
> > place to start your artistic ideas for a mural, but it looks as though
> you
> > have chosen symbols from southwestern Indians.
> >
> >
> >
> > Are you aware that we have a very long and influential history?of Native
> > American culture?in?the?Riverdale?Park?area?
> >
> >
> >
> > The?kind of native American that resided in this area?were?the Woodland
> > Indians.?Woodland Indian period was from 1000 BC to 1600 AD.
> >
> >
> >
> > Captain John Smith explored the upper Anacostia River, which included the
> > tributaries in today's Riverdale Park. In fact, the area you propose
> > is?located near to a tributary of the Anacostia River. The Indians he
> found
> > near the tributaries of the Anacostia River were called the
> > Nacotchtanke.?Riverdale Park is?part of the?Anacostia River Trail and a
> > Federally designated historic district.
> >
> >
> >
> > Many residents?in the area?have found?arrowheads while digging in their
> > yards and therefore have experienced a connection with the past.
> >
> >
> >
> > A mural with Native American symbolism in this town would be better
> served
> > if it had representative symbols of the indigenous people of the
> Anacostia
> > region.
> >
> >
> >
> > Melissa
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Christopher Martin <chrism at pgcps.org>
> > To: towntalk at riverdale-park.org
> > Cc: Alice Ewen Walker <alice at ewenwalker.com>; James n Julie Coleman
> > <jnjcolemans at yahoo.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 11:09:49 AM
> > Subject: [RP TownTalk] Mural Idealist
> >
> > Hello Riverdale Town Talkers,
> > A note from Community Based Classroom Teacher / Riverdale Resident /
> mural
> > planner:
> > In my class's conception of this mural ?-- the rainbow squares and/or
> other
> > squares in this rough sketch
> > (see?http://www.muralcollaborative.netfirms.com/muralintro.htm) could
> > be?filled with symbols designed by local artists/ community members,
> working
> > side by side with CBC students. ?In that sense, if there are any strong
> > Symbols of Riverdale that Historic Preservationists want to fit into the
> > mural - you're more than welcome to.? There are about 7-10 or more
> squares
> > available with this sketch.? We'd love to have and want input/asistance
> from
> > any artists or aspiring artists from town - neighbors Jim L and Sherita
> S...
> > that means you! :)
> > If we - cbc artists, riverdale artists/community members- ?wanted to
> change
> > the design to some degree to include landscapes/moments from town
> history..
> > we could do that also. ?The process of community involvement is as
> important
> > as the artwork in this mural. ?The challenge is getting multiple
> > artists/ideas into a coherent mural. ?I think the sketch's division by
> > squares / rainbow of symbols has the potential to incorporate many
> different
> > perspectives into a unified landscape. ?By allowing CBC students to
> follow
> > through with their initiative here, getting community involvement
> (including
> > the elementary school too) from experienced artists and beginners - this
> > mural can serve many purposes. ?It's a big enough bridge for us all to
> fit
> > under it!
> > CBC students would like to start attending the Thursday Market to assist
> us
> > locals create potential design squares,?have a children's drawing space,
> and
> > raise a little $ for the project, but as of yet have not gotten the go
> ahead
> > from Town / Market leaders. ?Town / market leaders... what's up?
> > For more info about CBC and its students go to www.pgcps.org/~cbc.
> > Thanks for your time.
> > Chris Martin
> > 301-918-8726
> > chrism at pgcps.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TownTalk mailing list
> > To post to the list, send mail to TownTalk at riverdale-park.org
> > TownTalk-request at riverdale-park.org is for automated subscription
> processing
> > only
> > http://riverdale-park.org/mailman/listinfo/towntalk
> >
> > For more information about Riverdale Park, visit
> > http://www.riverdaleparkmd.info
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Sarah Wayland
> Maryland - USA
> sarah.wayland at gmail.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 09:26:02 EDT
> From: OurDollMom at aol.com
> Subject: [RP TownTalk] Woodland Indians
> To: towntalk at riverdale-park.org
> Message-ID: <bfa.3c1de0c6.372074ea at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Google Piscataway Indians & then hit Cedarville
> Band - up comes the history of these Woodland
> area Indians. Natalie Proctor 240-464-5899 can
> get us all the information or where to go to get
> it. Also the website: _info at piscatawayindian.org_
> (mailto:info at piscatawayindian.org)
>
> We need to honor the Indians that were right
> here in Riverdale area & the surrounding areas.
>
> Emily
> **************Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops!
> (
> http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220433404x1201394533/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubl
> eclick.net%2Fclk%3B214133109%3B36002181%3Bk)
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 10:07:53 EDT
> From: OurDollMom at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [RP TownTalk] Mural Idealist
> To: m.avery at rocketmail.com, chrism at pgcps.org,
> towntalk at riverdale-park.org
> Cc: alice at ewenwalker.com, jnjcolemans at yahoo.com
> Message-ID: <c7a.551bca63.37207eb9 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> The phone numbers I gave you do not work but I do
> have a phone number that does & I left a message.
> The American Indian Cultural Org. meets the first
> Tuesday of each month at the Greenbelt Church,
> 7 pm at 1 Hillside Drive but the church sets on
> Crescent Road. Anyone is invited to learn about
> them & come to the meetings.
>
> If we are going to have a mural in the Historic
> District about Indians - it should only honor our
> own Indians who were living here. These Indians
> are still here in Cedarville/Waldorf & meet in
> Greenbelt. I think we should consult them so they
> can feel proud that we are honoring them in the
> proper historical way. There has been so much pain
> between the Indians and the White man here in our
> area. This is a chance to honor & respect them.
>
> My mother was a geneologist and when I was young
> I went with her talking to the Chiefs & used to go to the
> festivals.
>
> It is confusing to have a mural with southwestern
> symbols in it. When history buffs come to visit us
> or others who know their history - the experts will
> think we DO NOT KNOW our history and are not
> proud of it. It sends the wrong message.
>
> The Mural
> should honor what the Riversdale Mansion stands for
> and complement it - teaching our residents & children
> what we are about. It should make our Indians still
> alive and in our area proud that we care about them.
>
> Natalie & Maurice Proctor would be the ones to teach
> us the symbols & history to portray on this Mural.
>
> Emily
>
>
> In a message dated 4/21/2009 10:28:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> m.avery at rocketmail.com writes:
>
>
> It is very interesting that you have chosen Native American symbols as a
> place to start your artistic ideas for a mural, but it looks as though you
> have chosen symbols from southwestern Indians.
> Are you aware that we have a very long and influential history of Native
> American culture in the Riverdale Park area?
> The kind of native American that resided in this area were the Woodland
> Indians. Woodland Indian period was from 1000 BC to 1600 AD.
> Captain John Smith explored the upper Anacostia River, which included the
> tributaries in today's Riverdale Park. In fact, the area you propose is
> located near to a tributary of the Anacostia River. The Indians he found
> near
> the tributaries of the Anacostia River were called the Nacotchtanke.
> Riverdale Park is part of the Anacostia River Trail and a Federally
> designated
> historic district.
> Many residents in the area have found arrowheads while digging in their
> yards and therefore have experienced a connection with the past.
> A mural with Native American symbolism in this town would be better served
> if it had representative symbols of the indigenous people of the Anacostia
> region.
> Melissa
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________
> From: Christopher Martin <chrism at pgcps.org>
> To: towntalk at riverdale-park.org
> Cc: Alice Ewen Walker <alice at ewenwalker.com>; James n Julie Coleman
> <jnjcolemans at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 11:09:49 AM
> Subject: [RP TownTalk] Mural Idealist
>
> Hello Riverdale Town Talkers,
>
>
> A note from Community Based Classroom Teacher / Riverdale Resident / mural
> planner:
>
>
> In my class's conception of this mural -- the rainbow squares and/or other
> squares in this rough sketch (see
> http://www.muralcollaborative.netfirms.com/muralintro.htm) could be
> filled with symbols designed by local artists/
> community members, working side by side with CBC students. In that sense,
> if there are any strong Symbols of Riverdale that Historic
> Preservationists
> want to fit into the mural - you're more than welcome to. There are about
> 7-10 or more squares available with this sketch. We'd love to have and
> want input/asistance from any artists or aspiring artists from town -
> neighbors Jim L and Sherita S... that means you! :)
>
>
> If we - cbc artists, riverdale artists/community members- wanted to
> change the design to some degree to include landscapes/moments from town
> history.. we could do that also. The process of community involvement is
> as
> important as the artwork in this mural. The challenge is getting multiple
> artists/ideas into a coherent mural. I think the sketch's division
> by squares
> / rainbow of symbols has the potential to incorporate many different
> perspectives into a unified landscape. By allowing CBC students to follow
> through with their initiative here, getting community
> involvement (including the
> elementary school too) from experienced artists and beginners - this mural
> can serve many purposes. It's a big enough bridge for us all to fit under
> it!
>
>
> CBC students would like to start attending the Thursday Market to assist
> us locals create potential design squares, have a children's drawing
> space,
> and raise a little $ for the project, but as of yet have not gotten the go
> ahead from Town / Market leaders. Town / market leaders... what's up?
>
>
>
>
> For more info about CBC and its students go to _www.pgcps.org/~cbc_
> (http://www.pgcps.org/~cbc) .
>
>
> Thanks for your time.
>
>
> Chris Martin
> 301-918-8726
> _chrism at pgcps.org_ (mailto:chrism at pgcps.org)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TownTalk mailing list
> To post to the list, send mail to TownTalk at riverdale-park.org
> TownTalk-request at riverdale-park.org is for automated subscription
> processing only
> http://riverdale-park.org/mailman/listinfo/towntalk
>
> For more information about Riverdale Park, visit
> http://www.riverdaleparkmd.info
>
>
> **************Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops!
> (
> http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220433404x1201394533/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubl
> eclick.net%2Fclk%3B214133109%3B36002181%3Bk)
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://riverdale-park.org/pipermail/towntalk/attachments/20090422/6cd09a63/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 11:18:35 -0400
> From: Christopher Martin <chrism at pgcps.org>
> Subject: Re: [RP TownTalk] Mural Idealist
> To: OurDollMom at aol.com
> Cc: revans at sha.state.md.us, jnjcolemans at yahoo.com,
> towntalk at riverdale-park.org, alice at ewenwalker.com
> Message-ID:
> <f5b38dbb0904220818y6de5c7a1g68333d772222bb3c at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Great stuff. -- The dual purpose of a mural to add aesthetic value or
> beauty to a space and to inform with historic accuracy is an admirable and
> (I'm hoping) achievable goal. My class and I were going for aesthetic
> improvement and to provoke some thought as a secondary bi-product. Like
> someone said - we just wanted to add a splash of color to a dull concrete
> wall. The southwestern symbols were the most readily available to
> study and contain a simple beauty. Many of the symbols on the Piscataway
> flag mentioned in one post are similar to the southwestern symbols in the
> sketch.
>
> We appreciate what's going on here. We didn't have the time or the
> inclination to research specifics about the American Indians that walked
> paths along the anacostia tributaries and we would like nothing more than
> to
> honor them as a huge part of the mural. Great to get that going..........
>
> If we (riverdale residents/ cbc students some of whom live in town) choose
> to include 19th century and 20th century symbols/history.... Does anyone
> have any civil rights histories or herstories associated with our town? If
> we want to include an image of the mansion as central to town history
> -which
> no doubt it is - I think we should include two or three symbols of the long
> struggle to right the wrongs of history that the mansion also
> symbolizes. Civil Rights symbols from Riverdale would be of particular
> interest to my students who still toil in a below average school system and
> deal with the segregation/ injustice that lingers from the circumstance of
> our town's founding. (or do I have the history wrong again?) Maybe 19th
> century and 20th century images could be done on a different wall? There
> is
> plenty of concrete under that bridge.
>
> Back to pre-riversdale history.... How cool would it be if a native
> history-symbol mural could lead to that path there which could be converted
> into a serious walkway/ garden of native plants?
>
> Chris Martin
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 10:07 AM, <OurDollMom at aol.com> wrote:
>
> > The phone numbers I gave you do not work but I do
> > have a phone number that does & I left a message.
> > The American Indian Cultural Org. meets the first
> > Tuesday of each month at the Greenbelt Church,
> > 7 pm at 1 Hillside Drive but the church sets on
> > Crescent Road. Anyone is invited to learn about
> > them & come to the meetings.
> >
> > If we are going to have a mural in the Historic
> > District about Indians - it should only honor our
> > own Indians who were living here. These Indians
> > are still here in Cedarville/Waldorf & meet in
> > Greenbelt. I think we should consult them so they
> > can feel proud that we are honoring them in the
> > proper historical way. There has been so much pain
> > between the Indians and the White man here in our
> > area. This is a chance to honor & respect them.
> >
> > My mother was a geneologist and when I was young
> > I went with her talking to the Chiefs & used to go to the
> > festivals.
> >
> > It is confusing to have a mural with southwestern
> > symbols in it. When history buffs come to visit us
> > or others who know their history - the experts will
> > think we DO NOT KNOW our history and are not
> > proud of it. It sends the wrong message.
> >
> > The Mural
> > should honor what the Riversdale Mansion stands for
> > and complement it - teaching our residents & children
> > what we are about. It should make our Indians still
> > alive and in our area proud that we care about them.
> >
> > Natalie & Maurice Proctor would be the ones to teach
> > us the symbols & history to portray on this Mural.
> >
> > Emily
> >
> > In a message dated 4/21/2009 10:28:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> > m.avery at rocketmail.com writes:
> >
> > It is very interesting that you have chosen Native American symbols as a
> > place to start your artistic ideas for a mural, but it looks as though
> you
> > have chosen symbols from southwestern Indians.
> >
> >
> >
> > Are you aware that we have a very long and influential history of Native
> > American culture in the Riverdale Park area?
> >
> >
> >
> > The kind of native American that resided in this area were the Woodland
> > Indians. Woodland Indian period was from 1000 BC to 1600 AD.
> >
> >
> >
> > Captain John Smith explored the upper Anacostia River, which included the
> > tributaries in today's Riverdale Park. In fact, the area you propose
> > is located near to a tributary of the Anacostia River. The Indians he
> found
> > near the tributaries of the Anacostia River were called the
> > Nacotchtanke. Riverdale Park is part of the Anacostia River Trail and a
> > Federally designated historic district.
> >
> >
> >
> > Many residents in the area have found arrowheads while digging in their
> > yards and therefore have experienced a connection with the past.
> >
> >
> > A mural with Native American symbolism in this town would be better
> served
> > if it had representative symbols of the indigenous people of the
> Anacostia
> > region.
> >
> >
> >
> > Melissa
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > *From:* Christopher Martin <chrism at pgcps.org>
> > *To:* towntalk at riverdale-park.org
> > *Cc:* Alice Ewen Walker <alice at ewenwalker.com>; James n Julie Coleman <
> > jnjcolemans at yahoo.com>
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 21, 2009 11:09:49 AM
> > *Subject:* [RP TownTalk] Mural Idealist
> >
> > Hello Riverdale Town Talkers,
> >
> > A note from Community Based Classroom Teacher / Riverdale Resident /
> mural
> > planner:
> >
> > In my class's conception of this mural -- the rainbow squares and/or
> > other squares in this rough sketch (see
> > http://www.muralcollaborative.netfirms.com/muralintro.htm) could be
> filled
> > with symbols designed by local artists/ community members, working side
> by
> > side with CBC students. In that sense, if there are any strong Symbols
> of
> > Riverdale that Historic Preservationists want to fit into the mural -
> you're
> > more than welcome to. There are about 7-10 or more squares available
> with
> > this sketch. We'd love to have and want input/asistance from any artists
> or
> > aspiring artists from town - neighbors Jim L and Sherita S... that means
> > you! :)
> > If we - cbc artists, riverdale artists/community members- wanted to
> change
> > the design to some degree to include landscapes/moments from town
> history..
> > we could do that also. The process of community involvement is as
> important
> > as the artwork in this mural. The challenge is getting multiple
> > artists/ideas into a coherent mural. I think the sketch's division by
> > squares / rainbow of symbols has the potential to incorporate many
> different
> > perspectives into a unified landscape. By allowing CBC students to
> follow
> > through with their initiative here, getting community involvement
> (including
> > the elementary school too) from experienced artists and beginners - this
> > mural can serve many purposes. It's a big enough bridge for us all to
> fit
> > under it!
> >
> > CBC students would like to start attending the Thursday Market to assist
> us
> > locals create potential design squares, have a children's drawing space,
> and
> > raise a little $ for the project, but as of yet have not gotten the go
> ahead
> > from Town / Market leaders. Town / market leaders... what's up?
> >
> > For more info about CBC and its students go to www.pgcps.org/~cbc.
> >
> > Thanks for your time.
> >
> > Chris Martin
> > 301-918-8726
> > chrism at pgcps.org
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TownTalk mailing list
> > To post to the list, send mail to TownTalk at riverdale-park.org
> > TownTalk-request at riverdale-park.org is for automated subscription
> > processing only
> > http://riverdale-park.org/mailman/listinfo/towntalk
> >
> > For more information about Riverdale Park, visit
> > http://www.riverdaleparkmd.info
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops!<
> http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220433404x1201394533/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214133109%3B36002181%3Bk
> >
> >
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> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 11:27:53 -0400
> From: Jenni Pompi <jpompi at gmail.com>
> Subject: [RP TownTalk] Recommendations Needed: Roofer and Pest Control
> To: towntalk at riverdale-park.org
> Message-ID:
> <5c14e44e0904220827k509e20e7g205f6a1bc1ddd66d at mail.gmail.com>
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>
> We need to have some repairs done to the roof of our home. Some of it is
> just basic shingle replacement, but there is also some structural work that
> needs to be done on the roof of our back porch. We'd appreciate some
> recommendations of area roofers that are fair and quick.
>
> We also have an unfortunate ant problem this year and would like
> recommendations of pest control companies, particularly environmentally
> friendly ones, as we have small children.
>
> You can reply to me off list at jpompi at gmail.com
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Jenni Pompi
> Queensbury Rd.
>
> --
> "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." - Martin Luther
> King, Jr.
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 12:03:04 -0400
> From: Cranky old Coot <lking at knob.com>
> Subject: Re: [RP TownTalk] Mural Idealist
> To: towntalk at riverdale-park.org
> Message-ID: <49EF3FB8.5090203 at knob.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> The problem with (public) art is that everyone has an opinion.
>
> As an artist friend of mine repeated to me "There is no accounting for
> taste."
>
> Where were all these opinions two-three months ago when this idea was
> presented to the Council? Reported in the Council meeting minutes?
> Refined, discussed at follow-on public Council meetings?
>
> Although, participation in the educational process is not required to
> have an opinion, I don't hear anyone offering time, money.
>
> I have often noted that those that don't have to do, "know" how those
> that are doing should.
>
> COC
> -------------
> I am the cranky old coot's keeper, and I approve this message.
>
> Lou King
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 12:47:11 -0400
> From: Lou King <lking at knob.com>
> Subject: Re: [RP TownTalk] Mural Idealist
> To: TownTalk <towntalk at riverdale-park.org>
> Message-ID: <49EF4A0F.8010602 at knob.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> The problem with (public) art is that everyone has an opinion.
>
> As an artist friend of mine repeated to me "There is no accounting for
> taste."
>
> Where were all these opinions two-three months ago when this idea was
> presented to the Council? Reported in the Council meeting minutes?
> Refined, discussed at follow-on public Council meetings?
>
> Although, participation in the educational process is not required to
> have an opinion, I don't hear anyone offering time, money.
>
> I have often noted that those that don't have to do, "know" how those
> that are doing, should.
>
> COC
> -------------
> I am the cranky old coot's keeper, and I approve this message.
>
> Lou King
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 15:15:31 -0400
> From: Jonah Blaustein <jonah at mindspring.com>
> Subject: Re: [RP TownTalk] Mural Idealist
> To: OurDollMom at aol.com
> Cc: Town Talk <towntalk at riverdale-park.org>
> Message-ID: <3BE7A762-81E0-4AFA-B2B6-A0AC9226350C at mindspring.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed";
> DelSp="yes"
>
> http://www.piscatawaynation.org/
>
> This website mentions a curator at the Smithsonian National Museum of
> the American Indian, Gabrielle Tayac, who is a member of the Tayac
> family who are still very much alive and leaders of the Piscataway
> Nation. She probably can help with historic images from the area.
>
> JB
>
>
>
> On Apr 22, 2009, at 10:07 AM, OurDollMom at aol.com wrote:
>
> > The phone numbers I gave you do not work but I do
> > have a phone number that does & I left a message.
> > The American Indian Cultural Org. meets the first
> > Tuesday of each month at the Greenbelt Church,
> > 7 pm at 1 Hillside Drive but the church sets on
> > Crescent Road. Anyone is invited to learn about
> > them & come to the meetings.
> >
> > If we are going to have a mural in the Historic
> > District about Indians - it should only honor our
> > own Indians who were living here. These Indians
> > are still here in Cedarville/Waldorf & meet in
> > Greenbelt. I think we should consult them so they
> > can feel proud that we are honoring them in the
> > proper historical way. There has been so much pain
> > between the Indians and the White man here in our
> > area. This is a chance to honor & respect them.
> >
> > My mother was a geneologist and when I was young
> > I went with her talking to the Chiefs & used to go to the
> > festivals.
> >
> > It is confusing to have a mural with southwestern
> > symbols in it. When history buffs come to visit us
> > or others who know their history - the experts will
> > think we DO NOT KNOW our history and are not
> > proud of it. It sends the wrong message.
> >
> > The Mural
> > should honor what the Riversdale Mansion stands for
> > and complement it - teaching our residents & children
> > what we are about. It should make our Indians still
> > alive and in our area proud that we care about them.
> >
> > Natalie & Maurice Proctor would be the ones to teach
> > us the symbols & history to portray on this Mural.
> >
> > Emily
> >
> > In a message dated 4/21/2009 10:28:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> > m.avery at rocketmail.com writes:
> > It is very interesting that you have chosen Native American symbols
> > as a place to start your artistic ideas for a mural, but it looks
> > as though you have chosen symbols from southwestern Indians.
> >
> > Are you aware that we have a very long and influential history of
> > Native American culture in the Riverdale Park area?
> >
> > The kind of native American that resided in this area were the
> > Woodland Indians. Woodland Indian period was from 1000 BC to 1600 AD.
> >
> > Captain John Smith explored the upper Anacostia River, which
> > included the tributaries in today's Riverdale Park. In fact, the
> > area you propose is located near to a tributary of the Anacostia
> > River. The Indians he found near the tributaries of the Anacostia
> > River were called the Nacotchtanke. Riverdale Park is part of the
> > Anacostia River Trail and a Federally designated historic district.
> >
> > Many residents in the area have found arrowheads while digging in
> > their yards and therefore have experienced a connection with the past.
> >
> > A mural with Native American symbolism in this town would be better
> > served if it had representative symbols of the indigenous people of
> > the Anacostia region.
> >
> > Melissa
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Christopher Martin <chrism at pgcps.org>
> > To: towntalk at riverdale-park.org
> > Cc: Alice Ewen Walker <alice at ewenwalker.com>; James n Julie Coleman
> > <jnjcolemans at yahoo.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 11:09:49 AM
> > Subject: [RP TownTalk] Mural Idealist
> >
> > Hello Riverdale Town Talkers,
> >
> > A note from Community Based Classroom Teacher / Riverdale
> > Resident / mural planner:
> >
> > In my class's conception of this mural -- the rainbow squares and/
> > or other squares in this rough sketch (see http://
> > www.muralcollaborative.netfirms.com/muralintro.htm) could be filled
> > with symbols designed by local artists/ community members, working
> > side by side with CBC students. In that sense, if there are any
> > strong Symbols of Riverdale that Historic Preservationists want to
> > fit into the mural - you're more than welcome to. There are about
> > 7-10 or more squares available with this sketch. We'd love to have
> > and want input/asistance from any artists or aspiring artists from
> > town - neighbors Jim L and Sherita S... that means you! :)
> >
> > If we - cbc artists, riverdale artists/community members- wanted
> > to change the design to some degree to include landscapes/moments
> > from town history.. we could do that also. The process of
> > community involvement is as important as the artwork in this
> > mural. The challenge is getting multiple artists/ideas into a
> > coherent mural. I think the sketch's division by squares / rainbow
> > of symbols has the potential to incorporate many different
> > perspectives into a unified landscape. By allowing CBC students to
> > follow through with their initiative here, getting community
> > involvement (including the elementary school too) from experienced
> > artists and beginners - this mural can serve many purposes. It's a
> > big enough bridge for us all to fit under it!
> >
> > CBC students would like to start attending the Thursday Market to
> > assist us locals create potential design squares, have a children's
> > drawing space, and raise a little $ for the project, but as of yet
> > have not gotten the go ahead from Town / Market leaders. Town /
> > market leaders... what's up?
> >
> > For more info about CBC and its students go to www.pgcps.org/~cbc.
> >
> > Thanks for your time.
> >
> > Chris Martin
> > 301-918-8726
> > chrism at pgcps.org
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TownTalk mailing list
> > To post to the list, send mail to TownTalk at riverdale-park.org
> > TownTalk-request at riverdale-park.org is for automated subscription
> > processing only
> > http://riverdale-park.org/mailman/listinfo/towntalk
> >
> > For more information about Riverdale Park, visit http://
> > www.riverdaleparkmd.info
> >
> > Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops!
> > _______________________________________________
> > TownTalk mailing list
> > To post to the list, send mail to TownTalk at riverdale-park.org
> > TownTalk-request at riverdale-park.org is for automated subscription
> > processing only
> > http://riverdale-park.org/mailman/listinfo/towntalk
> >
> > For more information about Riverdale Park, visit http://
> > www.riverdaleparkmd.info
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 15:55:36 -0400
> From: Jim Coleman <jcolema3 at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [RP TownTalk] Mural Idealist
> To: Jonah Blaustein <jonah at mindspring.com>
> Cc: OurDollMom at aol.com, Town Talk <towntalk at riverdale-park.org>
> Message-ID:
> <a8efe440904221255u6b81c8d1ra77869c0dae81a84 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I did a little digging of my own. Here's some contact info:
>
> League of Indigenous Sovereign Nations
> The Piscataway Indian Nation
> P.O. Box 312
> Port Tobacco, MD
> 20677 USA
> (301) 932-0808
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Jonah Blaustein <jonah at mindspring.com
> >wrote:
>
> > *http://www.piscatawaynation.org/ *
> >
> > *This website mentions a curator at the Smithsonian National Museum of
> the
> > American Indian, Gabrielle Tayac, who is a member of the Tayac family who
> > are still very much alive and leaders of the Piscataway Nation. She
> probably
> > can help with historic images from the area. *
> >
> > JB
> >
> > *
> > *
> >
> > On Apr 22, 2009, at 10:07 AM, OurDollMom at aol.com wrote:
> >
> > The phone numbers I gave you do not work but I do
> > have a phone number that does & I left a message.
> > The American Indian Cultural Org. meets the first
> > Tuesday of each month at the Greenbelt Church,
> > 7 pm at 1 Hillside Drive but the church sets on
> > Crescent Road. Anyone is invited to learn about
> > them & come to the meetings.
> >
> > If we are going to have a mural in the Historic
> > District about Indians - it should only honor our
> > own Indians who were living here. These Indians
> > are still here in Cedarville/Waldorf & meet in
> > Greenbelt. I think we should consult them so they
> > can feel proud that we are honoring them in the
> > proper historical way. There has been so much pain
> > between the Indians and the White man here in our
> > area. This is a chance to honor & respect them.
> >
> > My mother was a geneologist and when I was young
> > I went with her talking to the Chiefs & used to go to the
> > festivals.
> >
> > It is confusing to have a mural with southwestern
> > symbols in it. When history buffs come to visit us
> > or others who know their history - the experts will
> > think we DO NOT KNOW our history and are not
> > proud of it. It sends the wrong message.
> >
> > The Mural
> > should honor what the Riversdale Mansion stands for
> > and complement it - teaching our residents & children
> > what we are about. It should make our Indians still
> > alive and in our area proud that we care about them.
> >
> > Natalie & Maurice Proctor would be the ones to teach
> > us the symbols & history to portray on this Mural.
> >
> > Emily
> >
> > In a message dated 4/21/2009 10:28:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> > m.avery at rocketmail.com writes:
> >
> > It is very interesting that you have chosen Native American symbols as a
> > place to start your artistic ideas for a mural, but it looks as though
> you
> > have chosen symbols from southwestern Indians.
> >
> > Are you aware that we have a very long and influential history of Native
> > American culture in the Riverdale Park area?
> >
> > The kind of native American that resided in this area were the Woodland
> > Indians. Woodland Indian period was from 1000 BC to 1600 AD.
> >
> > Captain John Smith explored the upper Anacostia River, which included the
> > tributaries in today's Riverdale Park. In fact, the area you propose
> > is located near to a tributary of the Anacostia River. The Indians he
> found
> > near the tributaries of the Anacostia River were called the
> > Nacotchtanke. Riverdale Park is part of the Anacostia River Trail and a
> > Federally designated historic district.
> >
> > Many residents in the area have found arrowheads while digging in their
> > yards and therefore have experienced a connection with the past.
> >
> > A mural with Native American symbolism in this town would be better
> served
> > if it had representative symbols of the indigenous people of the
> Anacostia
> > region.
> >
> >
> > Melissa
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > *From:* Christopher Martin <chrism at pgcps.org>
> > *To:* towntalk at riverdale-park.org
> > *Cc:* Alice Ewen Walker <alice at ewenwalker.com>; James n Julie Coleman <
> > jnjcolemans at yahoo.com>
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 21, 2009 11:09:49 AM
> > *Subject:* [RP TownTalk] Mural Idealist
> >
> > Hello Riverdale Town Talkers,
> >
> > A note from Community Based Classroom Teacher / Riverdale Resident /
> mural
> > planner:
> >
> > In my class's conception of this mural -- the rainbow squares and/or
> > other squares in this rough sketch (see
> > http://www.muralcollaborative.netfirms.com/muralintro.htm) could be
> filled
> > with symbols designed by local artists/ community members, working side
> by
> > side with CBC students. In that sense, if there are any strong Symbols
> of
> > Riverdale that Historic Preservationists want to fit into the mural -
> you're
> > more than welcome to. There are about 7-10 or more squares available
> with
> > this sketch. We'd love to have and want input/asistance from any artists
> or
> > aspiring artists from town - neighbors Jim L and Sherita S... that means
> > you! :)
> > If we - cbc artists, riverdale artists/community members- wanted to
> change
> > the design to some degree to include landscapes/moments from town
> history..
> > we could do that also. The process of community involvement is as
> important
> > as the artwork in this mural. The challenge is getting multiple
> > artists/ideas into a coherent mural. I think the sketch's division by
> > squares / rainbow of symbols has the potential to incorporate many
> different
> > perspectives into a unified landscape. By allowing CBC students to
> follow
> > through with their initiative here, getting community involvement
> (including
> > the elementary school too) from experienced artists and beginners - this
> > mural can serve many purposes. It's a big enough bridge for us all to
> fit
> > under it!
> >
> > CBC students would like to start attending the Thursday Market to assist
> us
> > locals create potential design squares, have a children's drawing space,
> and
> > raise a little $ for the project, but as of yet have not gotten the go
> ahead
> > from Town / Market leaders. Town / market leaders... what's up?
> >
> > For more info about CBC and its students go to www.pgcps.org/~cbc<
> http://www.pgcps.org/%7Ecbc>
> > .
> >
> > Thanks for your time.
> >
> > Chris Martin
> > 301-918-8726
> > chrism at pgcps.org
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TownTalk mailing list
> > To post to the list, send mail to TownTalk at riverdale-park.org
> > TownTalk-request at riverdale-park.org is for automated subscription
> > processing only
> > http://riverdale-park.org/mailman/listinfo/towntalk
> >
> > For more information about Riverdale Park, visit
> > http://www.riverdaleparkmd.info
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops!<
> http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220433404x1201394533/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214133109%3B36002181%3Bk
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TownTalk mailing list
> > To post to the list, send mail to TownTalk at riverdale-park.org
> > TownTalk-request at riverdale-park.org is for automated subscription
> > processing only
> > http://riverdale-park.org/mailman/listinfo/towntalk
> >
> > For more information about Riverdale Park, visit
> > http://www.riverdaleparkmd.info
> >
> >
> > =
> > _______________________________________________
> > TownTalk mailing list
> > To post to the list, send mail to TownTalk at riverdale-park.org
> > TownTalk-request at riverdale-park.org is for automated subscription
> > processing only
> > http://riverdale-park.org/mailman/listinfo/towntalk
> >
> > For more information about Riverdale Park, visit
> > http://www.riverdaleparkmd.info
> >
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TownTalk mailing list
> TownTalk at riverdale-park.org
> http://riverdale-park.org/mailman/listinfo/towntalk
>
> For more information about Riverdale Park, visit
> http://www.riverdaleparkmd.info
>
> End of TownTalk Digest, Vol 33, Issue 23
> ****************************************
>
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