[RP TownTalk] EXT : Proposed "Voter Expansion" legislation

Liz Bolin lizbolin at gmail.com
Sat Mar 10 16:25:26 UTC 2018 

I have some concerns and questions about this legislation.

1. What is the genesis of this legislation? Is RP only considering because other municipalities have passed similar legislation? If so, what is the success rate in those towns? Did it increase civic engagement or voter turn out?  Perhaps we wait a bit to see if the other towns have met their goals, and if not, maybe the legislation should be edited accordingly before being passed in RP.
2.  Assuming here... If the goal is to increase engagement and input into the town by all residents, there are existing ways that can already happen. All residents are welcome at committee meetings, council meetings, etc. We struggle to get US citizen residents to participate!
3. What is the anticipated increase in workload for the record keeping required?
4.  How will it be proven that a voter is not already registered elsewhere?



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________________________________
From: towntalk-bounces at riverdale-park.org <towntalk-bounces at riverdale-park.org> on behalf of Bruce Wernek <bruce.wernek at verizon.net>
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 1:56:28 PM
To: dwightrholmes at gmail.com; ourdollmom at aol.com
Cc: towntalk at riverdale-park.org
Subject: Re: [RP TownTalk] EXT : Proposed "Voter Expansion" legislation

Dwight

Did the voting requirements for each of the municipalities listed below consist of being 18 years of age and a resident for 30 days?  Your post doesn't mean much if you don't list the related terms and conditions for non voters.

Not sure what point you are trying to make.  Just because these other municipalities are doing this doesn't make it right for us.

Frankly, I think this is the only reason this legislation is being proposed.  Not because it's needed or folks are asking for it.  It's simply because Hyattsville, Mt Rainier, etc. have done it.  I would prefer if my council woman proposed legislation requested by her constituents, not legislation that has been adopted in other municipalities.

BTW, Have you read the proposed "Voter Expansion" legislation?

Bruce



-----Original Message-----
From: Dwight Holmes <dwightrholmes at gmail.com>
To: Aunt Emily <ourdollmom at aol.com>
Cc: TownTalk <towntalk at riverdale-park.org>
Sent: Fri, Mar 9, 2018 11:43 am
Subject: Re: [RP TownTalk] EXT : Proposed "Voter Expansion" legislation


ALSO THIS:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_foreigners_to_vote_in_the_United_States#Places_where_non-citizens_can_currently_vote


Wikipedia article  on the history of non-citizens voting in the U.S.  Turns out it used to be much more commonplace.  Interesting quote here from 1931 (the 20s were at least one peak of xenophobic and anti-immigrant beliefs): " In 1931, political scientist Leon Aylsworth noted: "For the first time in over a hundred years, a national election was held in 1928 in which no alien in any state had the right to cast a vote for a candidate for any office – national, state, or local."[17]<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_foreigners_to_vote_in_the_United_States#cite_note-17>"

>From that same article:

Municipalities in Maryland where non-citizens can currently vote in local elections:

  *   Barnesville, Maryland<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnesville,_Maryland> (since 1918)[58]<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_foreigners_to_vote_in_the_United_States#cite_note-58>
  *   Chevy Chase Section Three, Maryland<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevy_Chase_Section_Three,_Maryland>[59]<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_foreigners_to_vote_in_the_United_States#cite_note-59>
  *   Garrett Park, Maryland<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garrett_Park,_Maryland> (since 1999)[60]<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_foreigners_to_vote_in_the_United_States#cite_note-60>
  *   Glen Echo, Maryland<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glen_Echo,_Maryland>[61]<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_foreigners_to_vote_in_the_United_States#cite_note-washingtonpost.com-61>
  *   Hyattsville, Maryland<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyattsville,_Maryland> (since December 2016)[61]<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_foreigners_to_vote_in_the_United_States#cite_note-washingtonpost.com-61>
  *   Martin's Additions, Maryland<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin%27s_Additions,_Maryland>[62]<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_foreigners_to_vote_in_the_United_States#cite_note-62>
  *   Mount Rainier, Maryland<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Rainier,_Maryland> (since January 2017)[63]<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_foreigners_to_vote_in_the_United_States#cite_note-63>
  *   Somerset, Maryland<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somerset,_Maryland>[64]<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_foreigners_to_vote_in_the_United_States#cite_note-64>
  *   Takoma Park, Maryland<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takoma_Park,_Maryland> (since 1993)[65]<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_foreigners_to_vote_in_the_United_States#cite_note-65>


I'd be curious to know if any of these municipalities have seen hostile takeovers by marauding bands of invading noncitizen voters?


_____________________________________
"A budget is a moral document." --Jim Wallis

On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 11:24 AM, Dwight Holmes <dwightrholmes at gmail.com<mailto:dwightrholmes at gmail.com>> wrote:
There's a lot of interesting data out there, much of courtesy of Uncle Sam.
This is an interactive chart (click on ethnic/foreign- and native-born groups on the right to change what appears on the chart)
https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2013/ted_20130528.htm

>From this I learned that the labor force participation rate for people 16 yrs and older (i.e, people who either are working or are seeking work) for
Foreign-born Hispanics 69%
Native-born Hispanics 60%
Foreign-born Blacks 71%
Native-born Blacks 60%

Foreign-born people (25+ yrs) w/less than high school diploma 60%
Native-born people (25+ yrs) w/less than high school diploma 37%

My only point being, the idea that immigrants are somehow shiftless and lazy is simply bullpucky.

_____________________________________
"A budget is a moral document." --Jim Wallis

On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 10:50 AM, Aunt Emily <ourdollmom at aol.com<mailto:ourdollmom at aol.com>> wrote:
Thank you Dwight for bringing to people's attention the false misconceptions about immigrants.  This was needed.

In a message dated 3/9/2018 10:40:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, dwightrholmes at gmail.com<mailto:dwightrholmes at gmail.com> writes:

I see I neglected to include the link to the unemployment rate news release I mentioned. It is here: https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/forbrn.pdf

_____________________________________
"A budget is a moral document." --Jim Wallis

On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 10:14 AM, Dwight Holmes <dwightrholmes at gmail.com<mailto:dwightrholmes at gmail.com>> wrote:
Actually, it's quite the opposite.  Benefits such as TANF, social security disability, etc. are not available to non-citizens. And they do pay taxes. The most recent estimate I could find for Maryland is that undocumented residents of Maryland paid over $332 million per year in state and local taxes in Maryland (https://itep.org/immigration/) They pay sales taxes, gasoline and other excise taxes, property taxes (either directly as property owners or indirectly as renters). And if they do work with a false social security number then they pay payroll taxes (social security and medicare) for benefits they can never receive, and may de facto pay income taxes through payroll withholding.

Every study I've seen has found that immigrants commit fewer crimes and are as likely (if not more likely) to be employed than those of us who were born here.  A quick Google search found this news release from Bureau of Labor Statistics from about a year ago, reporting that the unemployment rate among foreign-born residents was 4.3% while at the time the rate for native-born residents was 5.0%.

I have not weighed in on the issue of whether or not to extend the right to vote in local elections to our noncitizen residents, but I found myself unable to let such false assertions as these go without a response.

Dwight Holmes


_____________________________________
"A budget is a moral document." --Jim Wallis

On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 10:01 AM, McDougall, Sherene [US] (Law) <Sherene.McDougall at ngc.com<mailto:Sherene.McDougall at ngc.com>> wrote:

Bruce,



They don’t want to become citizens because that would mean getting a job and having to pay taxes.   Why go through all that hassle to become a citizen when they are receiving food, money, housing and education.  Things that we taxpayers are paying for.



Sherene

From: towntalk-bounces at riverdale-park.org<mailto:towntalk-bounces at riverdale-park.org> [mailto:towntalk-bounces at riverdale-park.org<mailto:towntalk-bounces at riverdale-park.org>] On Behalf Of Bruce Wernek
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2018 9:41 AM
To: towntalk at riverdale-park.org<mailto:towntalk at riverdale-park.org>; townannounce at riverdale-park.org<mailto:townannounce at riverdale-park.org>
Subject: EXT :[RP TownTalk] Proposed "Voter Expansion" legislation



The proposed "Voter Expansion" legislation appears to patently marginalize town residents and US citizens in general.  If I understand it correctly, a non citizen can break the law, illegally enter our country, and 6 weeks later be rewarded for doing so with the right vote our Town.  Essentially, there are no requirements for voting privileges other than being 18 years of age or older and being a "resident" of Riverdale Park for 30 days.  I don't think the bar could be much lower.  Given this proposed legislation, one has to wonder, what benefit is there in being a long time resident committed to the Town, a tax payer, and a US citizen?



I find it hard to believe this legislation wasn't patently rejected by our Mayor and Council much less drawn up in the first place.  If non citizens want the right to vote, they have to demonstrate their commitment to our Town and country by becoming naturalized citizens.  My grandparents and father did.  Why don't these people have to?



Bruce


Bruce




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